Rather than write a long return comment, I'm going to address all of this in a two posts. I want to address two points - the energy use of various preserving methods and the energy use of dishwashing methods.
Claudia wrote that an Energy Star dishwasher is better than handwashing. I agree that it probably is, depending on your circumstances. She also mentioned that her gut feeling is that freezing is better than canning. I'm not so sure about that.
Let's look at dishwashing first.
The ideal situation is that you have an Energy Star dishwasher, do not use the heat drying option, and only run it when full. And you'd have to already own the dishwasher, because this is certainly not taking into account the manufacturing costs. You'd need to consider not just the water used, but also the electricity.
At Off-grid.net, they say this: "Washing dishes by hand can cost a household more than $431 in additional
energy and water bills over the estimated nine-year lifetime of an
Energy-Star certified dishwasher. Energy Star dishwashers use less than
half as much energy as washing dishes by hand and save nearly 5,000
gallons of water a year. They can also save you more than 230 hours of
personal time over the course of a year."
The problem is that the dishwasher (I'm looking at The Brick for prices) starts at about $400 and goes up to $2000. That's a lot to spend to save less than $50/year. Washing dishes isn't really my favourite household job, but 230 hours per year means ... 36 minutes per day, during which time I listen to music on my ipod and relax. In a couple of years, I'll put the kids on the job and teach them cooperation, patience and attention to detail. (And thereby save myself 36 minutes per day!)
When dishwashing methods are compared, they always seem to assume that hand washers run a *lot* of water. The truth is that an experienced hand washer can do a lot of dishes with two basins full of hot water - one soapy and one clear. Do NOT run hot water to rinse everything. If you're not washing in a double sink, then have a basin of hot water for rinsing. And of course it depends on how you're heating your water. Once we're off-grid, I can heat a kettle of water during the cold months with no extra cost because the stove will be already on.
However, I don't think that even the most efficient hand washer can match 4 gallons for a large load of dishes, especially if that includes cooking dishes. And when it comes to using them in graywater systems, they're equal - neither should be used.
Looking at it, I'd say this - IF you already own an energy efficient dishwasher, use it, especially if water supply is an issue. You'd be silly not to, because it's probably going to save you a little bit of money and a little bit of time, and it will certainly use less water. If you don't have one already, I don't think it makes much sense to buy one. By the time you've recouped your investment, you need to buy a new one.
I'm open to being told where I'm wrong. LOL My experience with dishwashers is very minimal and dates from about 25 years ago when my parents briefly had one. They got rid of it because Mom said it was making us lazy!
Tomorrow, I'll talk about preserving costs. :D
On canning, I like the redundancy of using both canning and freezing. I love canned fruit. It's worth the trouble just to see the beautiful jars lined across my shelves. I have been inspired to try canning meat this year by you and Farmgal. Then, my investment this year will be to try to get my freezer hooked up to run on solar power. You are so right that the initial outlay of a dishwasher or solar panel is an important component of any 'plan'. And my husband and I don't have the skills to put such an important appliance on solar since reliability would be crucial; we have a tiny farm and freeze some of our meat. I have talked to a few people about this installation and everyone is still looking for big jobs and believe me to be crazy. I am sure I can find help if I put my mind to it. It is such a comfort to be able to discuss these variables of a more constrained world with other sensible and thoughtful people.
ReplyDeleteI still have to write the post about costs for preserving. :) Don't worry, I'm not going to judge you for having a freezer, and we do still use our fridge's freezer, although I'm not sure it's the wisest choice for a couple of reasons. I'll explain in my post.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely redundancy! I keep telling Mr D "Redundancy squared!" The homestead has a gas generator and propane. We want to add solar and possibly micro-hydro to that. Don't JUST can your meat - can it, cure it, dehydrate it, figure out ways to keep it "on the hoof" until it's time to eat (rabbits & chickens come to mind immediately), and yes, if you have the ability, freeze it.
I do the dishes by hand, if water is low, I will do it a pan and use the grey water on the fruit tree's but the rest of the time, it just goes down the sink and into the septic system, I perfer how dishes come out by hand washing perosnally, I don't see any point in using a dishwasher and then rewashing the dishes..
ReplyDeleteI would kill to get to the point of only having one set of things per person and you want to eat at your next meal, do the dishes but that is so far from happening at my place its not even funny.. To a point I get it when I am large batch cooking and or canning, I am always so grateful for all the stuff in the kitchen but dang its a lot of stuff to store on the off-season.
I don't mind using the freezer for preserving, however if the power is out for a few days we would lose all our food. Living in Northern BC that is a possibility particularly if you live far outside of town. Also, I find that I don't often have the foresight to take something out of the freezer days ahead to thaw safely. Canned is instant and doesn't run the risk of going bad in a power outage. I also use the dehydrator because it takes up less space.
ReplyDeleteSigh. I have visions of permanently painting each family member's name on a plate, bowl and cup! Then if we have company, I can haul out the box with the Christmas dishes. (Not Christmas-themed, but the dishes that Mom brought out for Christmas every year.)
ReplyDeleteJust after Miss P was born, a couple of ladies came over from church to give me a hand, and one decided to clean out my pot/pan cupboard. She kept asking "Which of these do you use?" ALL of them! LOL "Which ones do you use often?" ALL of them!
Do you use a special cleaner for your dishwater to go to the fruit trees?
That's one of the reasons why I don't think anyone should rely on freezing.
ReplyDeleteNot really on the soap, I don't do antibacteral, and I don't do fancy, I use dawn, the blue one only..
ReplyDeletethat soap not only does dishes like you would not believe but it works wonders for bugs if you need to do the soap water spray, it can cut grease out of a critters coat like you would not believe, and it never bothers my hands..
They came out with a ultra or extra blue.. didn't like it.. only like the orginal one, never do the other colors etc.
I do have mulch around the tree, not right up on the base, but around it coming out to the tree branch drip lines, and so I water it out in that area, so that it has to sink down etc.
I hear you on the pots, Me, Hubby grab me a big pot for this.. him, which one, this one or that one or that one or that one.. but despite always looking for big steel bowls at all the farms sales, when harvest time coms, I never seem to have enough, could always use just a bit more LOL
I have a hard time getting the option to leave a comment to show up. I have to click to see an individual post several times before it appears. Our dishwasher died several years ago, and we just do them by hand. I don't think it's using a lot more water, and the investment to get a new one would never get paid off in our lifetimes. There is a big "too much bother to replace it factor"
ReplyDeleteI wish I knew what the problem was. :( I'm sorry. I'm glad you persist.
ReplyDeleteJust catching up on old posts! I remember reading somewhere (on of Sharon Astyk's books maybe?) about preserving costs, and freezing beat canning, but only for items that weren't going to be stored for very long. So, if you are eating everything up within a few months, freezing "won", but for longer term (1 year? can't remember) canning "won". I'm sure it also depends on your energy source: gas stove vs. electric vs. wood, and local energy costs to run the freezer.
ReplyDeleteCold cellering, of course, beat both, and dehydrating was somewhere in there too (again, depends on energy costs), with solar dehydrating a clear winner over both freezing and canning.
For me, it depends on the food: tomatoes get either dehydrated or canned, green beans only get dehydrated or frozen (can't stand the canned ones), etc.
Sigh. I never did write that post. Life is interfering with my blogging!!
ReplyDeleteOnce we move, my issue will be that we won't have a freezer or even a fridge! Regarding green beans, one thing I want to try is salt curing them. I found directions in my old Putting Food By.